DAY FIFTEEN: Interview with Labour candidate...

Interview with Mark Cann, North Devon Labour candidate for 2010 general election


IN THIS EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW:
“Yes, I am a socialist”/ Tactical voting/ Candidate wants to see a bolder politics/ Need to protect public services/ Says Labour has “got it right” on economy/ Labour has worked to solve housing crisis/ BNP question/ “I supported Iraq war”/ Gordon Brown defended

Question: Why and how did you become involved in politics?
"I think I first became aware of the political process when I was living in Croydon as a teenager and there was a very close election.
I think it was 1964. I went on to do a degree in politics at Reading University, got involved in student politics, was the president of the union and ran campaigns.
"I got involved in local politics in Shepton Mallet and became a town councillor and later a Mendip district councillor. I met Val, my wife, in 1990 and she was based in Braunton. Weekends and holidays were here and then in 2005 when there wasn’t a candidate here it was suggested I should stand by the regional office."

Question: Would you describe yourself as a socialist?
"Yes, absolutely, in the sense I believe in a fairer society and that fairness can be achieved through the basic redistribution of wealth."

Question: Why would anyone vote for a candidate who can't win?
"It’s a classic question which faces all third and fourth party candidates. I think the answer is firstly every individual has the right to vote for the party that is closest to their views and principles.
"By standing I’m giving something like 5,000 people the opportunity to vote the way they want to vote; I don’t think they're under any illusions but they want to express a view.
"It is also important that those who may not be thinking of voting Labour hear what I have to say about the issues of the date. I can put the message across for Labour. I can challenge the other parties."

Question: Can you address the tactical voting question, which is that if you are of a Labour persuasion and your primary concern is to keep the Conservatives out of Government, would it not be wisest to vote for the Lib Dem in North Devon?
"That’s a perfectly acceptable argument but then if one was to say that and if one was to constantly vote negatively, that doesn't say much about our political system. I don't think that's right.
"The people who vote tactically will do so. I think people are very intelligent and know what's happening in their area and will make their decisions. Some people feel they don’t want to vote against somebody, I want to vote for somebody."

Question: All the arguments the candidates are making are against this backdrop of the expenses scandal, the public perception of MPs is really bad. What would you do as an MP to improve that perception?
"I think we finally seem to have a package that’s in place and the new parliament will follow which seems to have addressed most of the major issues. Politicians have to make sure they are absolutely scrupulous in their adherence to those rules and be happy to be completely transparent in all that we do.
"There’s a job of work to be done; we really have to build some confidence. I don’t think MPs would go into politics for the money. The vast majority of MPs are altruistic; they go into politics because they feel they can make a difference. The system has been allowed to drift and they haven’t been as assiduous as they should have been."

Question: Can I ask you about the campaign as it has been going on. A lot of the claims being made are fairly typical for electioneering, that people are saying they want "less waste", "more fairness", "change". Is not one of the reasons why the public get disillusioned because they are slightly vacuous claims. You could never argue their opposites, for "more waste", for example.
"Looking at an observer of politics for the best part of 50 years is that our politics has become much closer. The old big debates between the forces of capital and the forces of labour, which dominated much of our politics for much of the 20th century, that has changed.
"Things have moved dramatically. The 1980s and 1990s brought fundamental changes in the way our society worked and also in the attitudes people had and parties responded to that.
"We saw New Labour becoming successful in 1997 and as a result the parties have become closer together. The second observation I would make is all politicians are desperately worried about saying "I got it wrong" or "that didn’t work"; there seems to be a failure to be honest with people because honesty is sometimes telling people something they don't want to hear.
"Then the media fall on them and they are pilloried. Perhaps all politicians are all dancing around the issues, scared we'd alienate a section of the electorate we are relying upon for success.
"I would like to see our politics be a bit more bold and more radical. The public are not stupid. I hope in our manifesto we are in difficult times but are offering a vision of the future that does reflect the values of our party and it's relevant to the vast majority of people in this country today.
"To get us back to work, get the economy stronger again, to continue building on the success in our hospitals and schools and so on."

Question: We’ve had a lot of to-ing and fro-ing about who can make the most breathtaking savings on public sector spending and waste. What's your view on that?People on the doorstep will say "we’ve got all these managers at the hospital; sack them all", things like that.
"We’re all saying we can find savings by cutting waste and it does beg the question: why has waste been allowed to build up? We’ve become more and more dependent in our economy on the public services for employment.
"Having been a teacher I can't see us being over-managed in the slightest; there's been a great deal more autonomy given to schools, for the better.
"I think we depend on the public services to support our economy and I don’t believe now is time to cut back on public services in this financial year. I’m sure we can find efficiency savings and that should be an ongoing process. We do need to protect frontline services."

Question: There seems to be a common thread between the Conservatives, Lib Dems and UKIP about devolving power back down to communities. They say one of the major problems with the Labour Government has been this top down, centralised, approach, with the targets. William Hague was on the radio this morning saying that you should be allowed to set up your own school, for example.
"We have Scotland and Wales in terms of devolution and we’ve seen the flowering of both of those cultures and economies as a result of that devolution.
"We’ve experimenting with English devolution in the sense of regional assemblies which hasn't been particularly successful, I agree, but I think we can do more.
"We can give greater decision-making opportunities to local authorities. I think the idea you can take taxpayers’ money and give it to a private group to set up their own school and hope it’s successful; that does worry me.
"We do need to have national standards. For example, though much-maligned, national testing and the national curriculum, while I have issues with Key Stage Two testing, has meant we’ve seen significant improvements in the quality of education in this country.
"We just have to remember how things were in the 1980s and 1990s. There are some things that only national Government can do and while I would welcome further devolution where appropriate let’s not always knock government.
"National government does have a leadership role. In health, education and policing this Government has made significant improvements which come because Government has taken a lead."

Question: Can I ask for your thoughts on the economy and what measures you think should be taken now?
"I think we have got it right. One can look back and say "where did we go wrong?" and the recession is a product of a worldwide crisis and not just a domestic one.
"I think to talk about "Gordon Brown’s deficit" is over-simplifying a much more complex of factors.
"What Gordon Brown and Alastair Darling have managed to achieve over the last 18 months is pretty remarkable when you think of the dire warnings about the levels of unemployment and depths of recession we were going to be facing, the fact we seem to have come through the worst of it, we have got the measures about right.
"I’m in favour of the transaction tax, the Robin Hood tax. I know the Government is talking about international agreement on that. I think we need to manage our financial sector better.
"Hindsight’s a wonderful thing isn’t it but I think we all ran away with ourselves a little bit and I think we have to do more to control that. In terms of borrowing, I think it had to be done and the proof will be we will come out of this recession with greater strength."

Question: As the party of Government people will judge you on your record over the past 13 years. The argument will be made that the Labour government was in power when the massive credit bubble and house price inflation; this was the Labour party happily allowing all this to happen?
"I think that’s a reasonable question. What you also have to look at is that what Labour has done in terms of trying to provide affordable housing for purchase and for rent has been quite significant.
"The stock of publicly-owned housing, through councils or housing associations, had required a massive investment to bring that up to standard. £21 billion has been spent improving the housing stock since 1997 and Labour has continued to invest in affordable homes and I see that as one of the key points in North Devon.
"The Government is already committed to building more affordable homes across the country and it would be a mark of success or failure of this Labour government that we manage to bring to areas like North Devon decent homes for people at affordable rents and affordable prices through a variety of schemes.
"The economy has got a great deal out of that financial success; a great deal of wealth was generated during those years of plenty.
"I think the Government has made use of the taxes that were generated to good effect; we've seen that investment in our schools and hospitals and other services.
"Without that taxation we would not have had funds to invest in the public sector. Yes, we took our eye off the ball and thought this would go on forever. But to say nothing came of it is wrong and is to miss what has been achieved."

Question: An argument made is that the Labour party became too much enamoured with the City and business and that has sort of been its downfall?
"With one or two exceptions there weren’t too many people saying that then. I’ve already admitted I think we did take our eye off the ball and did become too enamoured. But again hindsight is a marvellous thing. While everything was looking rosy there were some people who said this can't go on forever."

Question: You talked about wealth being generated and the Conservatives are saying that the gap between the richest and the poorest is now bigger than ever...
"It depends how you look at it. The redistributive effects of Labour policies is there has been a significant redistribution from the top 10% to the bottom 10%.
"What has happened is the prosperity experienced by those at the top has gone ahead and it hasn’t caught up from below.
"I do believe that the redistribution of wealth through a fair taxation system and through Government activity is the one way we can give all people a decent living in this country."

Question: Do you think poorer people feel wealthier now?
"I think there are still too many people in poverty. A lot has been done to alleviate that and we have not reached our targets on child poverty but we have still lifted hundreds of thousands of families out of that poverty.
"The minimum wage we take for granted now and that has been a major factor, especially in a place like North Devon where wage levels were very low. We were seeing £1 and £2 an hour in 1997 and the minimum wage has made poverty wages a thing of the past. "Through tax credits and the tax system we have seen redistribution and we do see a better quality of life for all but there's still much more to do."

Question: This is a key difference between Labour and the Conservatives, particularly with the National Insurance proposals, what's your view about the Tories are talking about tax?
"On National Insurance (and the Tories) I’m not convinced where the money is coming from. They have failed to make clear precisely how they are going to fund this particular partial reining back of the increase was planned for next April.
"We’ve been honest and said we need to address the deficit. Part of that is asking those who are better off to make their contribution.
"The NI proposals will not hit the most poor; they will hit middle and upper income earners admittedly, but I think we all have to take our share.
"It was a very good electoral gimmick but the more you look at it I’m not convinced they can identify where this money is going to come from.
If a company need to employ more people it will still employ more people and it will not be a disincentive to job creation."

Question: What are your views on the EU?
"Listening to the UKIP manifesto launch, they are living in a very strange space.
"They have incredibly simplistic propositions about how we can save vast sums of money by just leaving Europe and just leaving Europe is not on the agenda.
"By all means let’s look at the EU and the EC and how it works and I think over the years it’s steadily improved; accountability has got better, the role of the parliament has improved.
"There is still more to be done improving CAP, the fisheries policy, both of which are pertinent to people in the South West. But looking at the benefits of Europe. Our trading partners are in Europe.
"I think it’s fantasy politics to talk about withdrawing from Europe and it’s pandering to an outdated sense of nationalism.
"My other worry about their policies is with them putting immigration so high up the agenda; I think that sends the wrong message.
"We need to look at our overall policy with regard to the number of people coming into this country but we have a very proud tradition of supporting asylum seekers, of offering people opportunities, we have responsibilities to our old colonies.
"Our labour market is now European-wide which means you and I can go and work in Europe and people can come here and that has been to the benefit of our economy. I think it would be a disaster for us to leave the EU."

Question: One of the sorest points in relation to the Labour government has been the war in Iraq and to a lesser extent the war in Afghanistan. Did you support both of those wars?
"I did at the time. Iraq was incredibly difficult. It would be easy for me to turn around and say "no, I didn’t". I think if one could re-run that and looking at the evidence we have now one might have come to a different view.
"My view was that we were not necessarily looking for weapons of mass destruction, the arguments are well-rehearsed over that. For me the clinching point was the sheer brutality of the man towards his own people. Things could have gone a lot better in terms of the reconstruction and so on.
"Afghanistan is another difficult decision. One could argue: why are British forces there? We’re not there alone. We are there as part of a NATO and UN operation and I do give it my support.
"It’s an incredibly complex issue about how we build democracy in Afghanistan. The country is littered with foreign entanglements which have failed.
"I believe that given the nature of this UN/NATO operation there is some very good work being done to build democracy.
"The clincher there for me was the treatment of women by the Taliban. I feel the world community does have responsibilities, it does need at times to intervene where great injustice or great wrongs are being done."

Question: That’s the neo-con argument, isn’t it? You can intervene anywhere...we could go into Zimbabwe, the Congo...
"No. The proviso would have to be that the world community had responsibilities. I see the neo-con point but the motivation is different. My view is a humanitarian one rather than an economic one."

Question: From a humanitarian view, the Iraq and Afghanistan wars have caused untold misery?
"Arguably. But again one looks at what would have happened if that action hadn’t been taken and who’s to know? I certainly feel that as far as Afghanistan is concerned the intentions are entirely honourable."

Question: Climate change a lot of people believe is the biggest threat facing humanity. UKIP are officially climate change sceptics and some Conservative candidates are making noises in that direction. People will say "it’s a con" or "it’s a conspiracy". What do you say?
"I think the overwhelming evidence is that we have to do something about this urgently.
We desperately need to become a more low carbon society and planet, hence our target of getting 40% low carbon of electricity by 2020. I believe this Government has led the way as far as climate change policy is concerned."

Question: We’ve had a Labour Government for 13 years. The argument will go that people are sick of Labour and disillusioned with Tony Blair and the unpopular Iraq war and the style of "sofa politics" and spin and all that, the economic catastrophe and Gordon Brown who is not seen as a particularly charismatic leader. How can you convince electors they should give Labour a chance?
"I would say look at the record of the last 13 years. We have acted on poverty, our schools have improved. Our medical services; look at the waiting lists, look at the treatments available. Look at the improvements in our own hospital in North Devon. All have come as a result of a Labour Government.
"It’s very easy to look back at the last two years and look at the economic situation and say "it was Labour’s fault". It wasn’t just Labour’s fault; it was a worldwide catastrophe which the Labour Government did its best to mitigate.
"Gordon Brown doesn’t pretend to be an advertising agency, glossy, smooth presenter. He is a remarkable man who has had a very good record of managing our economy. I think he has the qualities and skills to take us forward."

Question: Can I ask you about the fact the BNP are standing in North Devon for the first time?
"It’s disappointing that we have a BNP candidate here and why do you think we have a BNP candidate here? Classically extremist parties have sought to prosper at times of great economic uncertainty, often peddling simplistic and racist views about how we can solve our problems, which I totally reject. The Labour Party role is to counter that and to talk to the people who are those on whom the BNP campaign, often the white working class.
"Labour is still the party that represents the ordinary person in this country and don’t be misled."

Question: That’s the argument there, isn’t it? That the BNP have prospered because the Labour Party has sidelined the traditional white working class, seeking those marginal middle-class votes...
"Indeed. And that’s why I say we have to refocus and remind people that Labour has not ignored that sector of the electorate. You look at the policies: the minimum wage, tax credits, Sure Start."

Question: How would electing you improve the lives of people in North Devon?
"Housing in particular is vitally important. I believe Labour can bring good quality, affordable housing to rural areas like North Devon and that’s a measure by which we should be judged.
"Secondly I think we have an opportunity through projects like the Atlantic Array to create employment."

Question: On housing there has been a lot of criticism of the Regional Spatial Strategy and the Joint Core Strategy, not just for the fact it’s a top-down Government target for housing, but also the fact it’s a certain number of so many thousand houses. What’s your view?
"I think we have to be honest with people and say: you can’t have it both ways.
"You can’t say our young people need decent homes and then turn around and say: you can’t put it there, you can’t put it there. Where do we put it?
"We’ve done our best to maximise brownfield sites, like Fremington.
"There is a choice: either we are prepared to invest in our future and build decent homes or we’re not. I would make myself unpopular in some of those areas and say we do have to commit ourselves to building.
"Yes of course be sensitive as possible to local needs. If we are to achieve the significant growth we need in housing we are going to have to build on sites which are not always going to be to the satisfaction of local residents. Hasn’t it always been that way? I think we need to bite the bullet."

Question: It is quite a bullet, isn’t it? It was brought home to me when we did a story about a small piece of land in Barnstaple and they changed the number of affordable homes and local people there were absolutely furious about it...
"If you look at the number of people who don’t live in that area, the reaction on your own website was: heaven’s sake, our young people need somewhere to live. This suggestion that just because people are living in affordable housing that crime rates are going to go up etc I found very distasteful. I support that development and I’m glad to see it in fact. There’s precious little being done."